Now that the dust has settled to a certain extent, how did we do with the pandemic? Which countries handled the situation best? Did we learn anything? How well did scientists do, and how well did the public, politicians, and the media do? In this episode of the podcast I speak with Australian immunologist and author Peter Doherty. Peter has won a range of distinguished prizes for his research including the Albert Lasker prize for basic medical research and the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine jointly with Rolf M. Zinkernagel. Peter is also a National Trust Australian Living Treasure, and was the 1997 Australian of the year. We discuss immunology, life in research, the Nobel prize, scientific ego, the role of science in politics, the struggles of young scientists, existential risk, and political polarization.