In this conversation I speak with renegade economist and creator of doughnut economics Kate Raworth. Kate is a Senior Associate at Oxford University’s Environmental Change Institute, where she teaches on the Masters in Environmental Change and Management. She is also Professor of Practice at Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences. We speak about economic transformation, and re-imagining economic possibilities for the 21st century. What should we design our economic system to do? Growth in GDP is a nice target to aim for because it is simple, but it doesn't do a very good job of capturing all of the economic externalities associated with market contracts, and in particular the impact of doing business on the environment and human well being. Our economies are beginning to run up against our planets boundaries, and it is becoming increasingly apparent that our planet is finite. So what should our target be if not for endless growth in GDP at the expense of our only known habitable planet?